Can you pleae respond to the following question in approximately 100 words:
How is the fable of the ‘salmon and dogfish’ a fitting tale for the end of Act 3?
Mr. D
14 comments:
Anonymous
said...
In the Duchess’s ability to give such a fable to Bosola knowing that she faces death shows Webster’s more moral role in the Duchess of Malfi to explore human dignity. The duchess remains dignified in the knowledge of near certain death as she does not panic and responds confidently and intellectually in this fable to have her last word, summing up her mentions and feelings of the situation. In this Webster presents how this female matriarch can still rise over the chaos and corruption of the setting around her and in this the morality of the incestuous Ferdinand and the corruption of the cardinal and Bosola are exacerbated. The speech at the end of this scene acts to summarise the events of the scene itself and is also the process by which the duchess self affirms herself. The salmon and the dog fish symbolically represent how the duchess is able to maintain a moral high ground above Bosola and also above her 2 incestuous brothers.
Sir, I have no idea what the Salmon and Dogfish tale is .. I've been searching for about an hour now an cant find anything. Is there anything you can tell me ?
The fable of the ‘salmon and dogfish’ is the second fable we, the audience are recited. The significance of the fable lies in the presentation of the Duchess, where we see her transform from a strong, independent and important figure into a hopeless tragic protagonist. However, although her character significantly changes, her boldness in remaining as a strong character still remains as even though she understand her come she does not resort to begging or pleading with her guard at anytime. This stands out from the tale as although she becomes a victim she still maintains her dignity as well as expected.
In this scene, the story of the ‘Salmon and the Dogfish’ is an assertion of the duchesses position and stature. Despite all previous examples of her fallibility as a character, through this allegory she gains moral ascendancy in our eyes. The moralistic tone that comes out the line “men oft are valued high, when th’are most wretched” makes us assess her value. She has been persecuted for a honourable and pure reason and yet she is suffering because of it. Webster by portraying the Duchess in this way makes her seem more virtuous as despite any previous flaws she still exudes and retains an aura of morality.
The fable marks an important changing point in the Duchess' character, as she is shown to lose all power and status she previously had. However we still get a sense of the Duchess' self pride as she keeps all dignity throughout the process of being captured by remaining calm and resisting begging for her life. Even when she knows she is going to die the Duchess keeps a moral high ground and does not show any pain or suffering to the men who she can hardly call brothers, achieving a small, yet important moral victory over the villains.
The 'salmon and dog-fish' fable is a fitting tale to conclude Act 3 as it introduces, be it in an indirect manner, some of the reasoning behind why the Duchess settled for a man socially below her. Through her understanding that it is the wealthy 'dog-fishes' who are the corrupt and worthless figures within society, she gains the audience's respect, with her tale elevating her above her cruel and distant social class. The Duchess's outward dislike of her 'wretched' brothers and her prevailing desire to be with the man she loves regardless of society's constrictions, gains the character sympathy just before the crucial moment of her death in the following act. -David L
As the tone shifts dramatically in act three we as the audience are clearly shown how the duchess deals with her certain death. This is signified through the fable of the salmon and dogfish. the duchess retains her dignity as a character in the face of death, webstars portrayal of the duchess in this scene contradicts our past opinions as the duchess shows through moralistic tone how the fable relates to her situation. she gains moral high ground through doing this, Bosola, the two brothers and the context in which she lives in are made to look corrupted and we and the audience respect the duchess for facing up to death with dignity while still standing up to her tormentors.
In Act three, the fable the Duchess gives shows a significant change in her character. She seems much more mature and wise as she morally defends the act of marrying someone of a lower social status, despite the fact that it has brought her to her destruction.This contrasts to the frequent references she made to social standing in Act two. Although at this point the Duchess is helpless, she decides to die with dignity rather than begging for mercy. This can be interpretated as a last attempt by Webster to extract some last minute sympathy from the audience; before her tragic death.
By the duchess producing the fable of the salmon and the dogfish in the face of her death we can see she is maybe not scared of what is about to come upon her or even she in the face of death has no opposition to what is going to happen. By not putting up a fight against what fate has been decided for her she maintains her goodness and purity, this I believe was the idea behind her producing the fable at this specific moment in time in the play. This is clever use of audiences feelings by Webster as he manipulates them to feel sorry for the duchess just by choosing her to use this fable in return to Ferdinand’s torments.
The way in which the Duchess faces her death is graceful, calm and to an extent unrealistic. The Duchess comes across as a reinstated strong character through the use of this fable. It also shows that she isn’t fearful of her death. The fable allows the Duchess to regain the audience’s sympathy, showing her understanding in the corruption of society (and her brothers), which builds us against the potential fall. However, the Duchess is somewhat stripped of her power and status so it’s hard for us as an audience to understand what is to come in the play. None the less the use of the fable speech before her death does enrich her character, as a critical audience we find is easier to re-relate to the Duchess and sympathise with her death later in the play.
The fable of ‘the salmon and the dogfish’, I believe, is a metaphoric reflection of the story told in Act 3. The salmon that ‘dost live in shallow rivers’, is representative of Antonio, who like the salmon has a ‘shallow’ status. The salmon then, by swimming ‘unto the sea’ is challenging society by prospering through the social ladder to a higher status, as represented by deepness of the sea. From here the salmon attempts to integrate its self among those of a higher status such as the ‘dogfish’ who is representative of the Cardinal and Ferdinand. The dogfish is insulted by the actions of the salmon, as is the Cardinal and Ferdinand of the actions of Antonio. However, the Duchess, in the story, tries to convince her brothers to be thankful they (the Salmon and the Dogfish) ‘both have passed the net’ and to notice that although the salmon’s (Antonio’s) status appears to be of a lower rank, his true value is one that is much higher, but ironically this can not be accepted until death.
I am aware that my interpretation is different to everyone else's.
The fable of the “salmon and the dogfish” is a fitting tale for the end of Act three because it serves to represent the Duchess’ and Antonio’s relationship. She chooses to represent herself as the “dogfish” whilst Antonio is portrayed as the “salmon”, due to his lower class roots. She says that it is irrelevant to dislike someone because of their background, and even those who have had a privileged upbringing may not always be decent. In this way she refers to her brothers as “men oft are valued high, when th’ are most wretched.” She also uses the fable to enhance her point that the worth of people are not judged separately, but it is only when they come together that their value comes to light; “our value can never be truly known till in the fisher’s basket we be shown.”
The fable of the 'salmon and the dogfish' serves to reflect the Duchess's change in character, both her physical and psychological disintegration. Ath the beginning of the play Webster presents the Duchess as being a woman of strength and boldness (?) demonstrated through the disobedience of her brothers, and also of a high status. However toward the end of Act 3 these character traits are reversed and the Duchess becomes the binary opposite of her former self. The Duchess becomes a weak, fragile woman, while simultaneously growing in humanity, thus gaining the respect of the audience, who empathise with the cruel treatment she's being issued with and the resulting detioration of her character.
14 comments:
In the Duchess’s ability to give such a fable to Bosola knowing that she faces death shows Webster’s more moral role in the Duchess of Malfi to explore human dignity. The duchess remains dignified in the knowledge of near certain death as she does not panic and responds confidently and intellectually in this fable to have her last word, summing up her mentions and feelings of the situation. In this Webster presents how this female matriarch can still rise over the chaos and corruption of the setting around her and in this the morality of the incestuous Ferdinand and the corruption of the cardinal and Bosola are exacerbated. The speech at the end of this scene acts to summarise the events of the scene itself and is also the process by which the duchess self affirms herself. The salmon and the dog fish symbolically represent how the duchess is able to maintain a moral high ground above Bosola and also above her 2 incestuous brothers.
Regards,
Antony West
Sir, I have no idea what the Salmon and Dogfish tale is .. I've been searching for about an hour now an cant find anything. Is there anything you can tell me ?
Carl
The fable of the ‘salmon and dogfish’ is the second fable we, the audience are recited. The significance of the fable lies in the presentation of the Duchess, where we see her transform from a strong, independent and important figure into a hopeless tragic protagonist. However, although her character significantly changes, her boldness in remaining as a strong character still remains as even though she understand her come she does not resort to begging or pleading with her guard at anytime. This stands out from the tale as although she becomes a victim she still maintains her dignity as well as expected.
(I wasn't to sure)
In this scene, the story of the ‘Salmon and the Dogfish’ is an assertion of the duchesses position and stature. Despite all previous examples of her fallibility as a character, through this allegory she gains moral ascendancy in our eyes. The moralistic tone that comes out the line “men oft are valued high, when th’are most wretched” makes us assess her value. She has been persecuted for a honourable and pure reason and yet she is suffering because of it. Webster by portraying the Duchess in this way makes her seem more virtuous as despite any previous flaws she still exudes and retains an aura of morality.
The fable marks an important changing point in the Duchess' character, as she is shown to lose all power and status she previously had. However we still get a sense of the Duchess' self pride as she keeps all dignity throughout the process of being captured by remaining calm and resisting begging for her life. Even when she knows she is going to die the Duchess keeps a moral high ground and does not show any pain or suffering to the men who she can hardly call brothers, achieving a small, yet important moral victory over the villains.
Sam (98 words)
The 'salmon and dog-fish' fable is a fitting tale to conclude Act 3 as it introduces, be it in an indirect manner, some of the reasoning behind why the Duchess settled for a man socially below her. Through her understanding that it is the wealthy 'dog-fishes' who are the corrupt and worthless figures within society, she gains the audience's respect, with her tale elevating her above her cruel and distant social class. The Duchess's outward dislike of her 'wretched' brothers and her prevailing desire to be with the man she loves regardless of society's constrictions, gains the character sympathy just before the crucial moment of her death in the following act.
-David L
As the tone shifts dramatically in act three we as the audience are clearly shown how the duchess deals with her certain death. This is signified through the fable of the salmon and dogfish. the duchess retains her dignity as a character in the face of death, webstars portrayal of the duchess in this scene contradicts our past opinions as the duchess shows through moralistic tone how the fable relates to her situation. she gains
moral high ground through doing this, Bosola, the two brothers and the context in which she lives in are made to look corrupted and we and the audience respect the duchess for facing up to death with dignity while still standing up to her tormentors.
In Act three, the fable the Duchess gives shows a significant change in her character. She seems much more mature and wise as she morally defends the act of marrying someone of a lower social status, despite the fact that it has brought her to her destruction.This contrasts to the frequent references she made to social standing in Act two. Although at this point the Duchess is helpless, she decides to die with dignity rather than begging for mercy. This can be interpretated as a last attempt by Webster to extract some last minute sympathy from the audience; before her tragic death.
-Harjit
By the duchess producing the fable of the salmon and the dogfish in the face of her death we can see she is maybe not scared of what is about to come upon her or even she in the face of death has no opposition to what is going to happen. By not putting up a fight against what fate has been decided for her she maintains her goodness and purity, this I believe was the idea behind her producing the fable at this specific moment in time in the play. This is clever use of audiences feelings by Webster as he manipulates them to feel sorry for the duchess just by choosing her to use this fable in return to Ferdinand’s torments.
(123 words)
B.SIMSON
The way in which the Duchess faces her death is graceful, calm and to an extent unrealistic. The Duchess comes across as a reinstated strong character through the use of this fable. It also shows that she isn’t fearful of her death. The fable allows the Duchess to regain the audience’s sympathy, showing her understanding in the corruption of society (and her brothers), which builds us against the potential fall. However, the Duchess is somewhat stripped of her power and status so it’s hard for us as an audience to understand what is to come in the play. None the less the use of the fable speech before her death does enrich her character, as a critical audience we find is easier to re-relate to the Duchess and sympathise with her death later in the play.
Carl
The fable of ‘the salmon and the dogfish’, I believe, is a metaphoric reflection of the story told in Act 3. The salmon that ‘dost live in shallow rivers’, is representative of Antonio, who like the salmon has a ‘shallow’ status. The salmon then, by swimming ‘unto the sea’ is challenging society by prospering through the social ladder to a higher status, as represented by deepness of the sea. From here the salmon attempts to integrate its self among those of a higher status such as the ‘dogfish’ who is representative of the Cardinal and Ferdinand. The dogfish is insulted by the actions of the salmon, as is the Cardinal and Ferdinand of the actions of Antonio. However, the Duchess, in the story, tries to convince her brothers to be thankful they (the Salmon and the Dogfish) ‘both have passed the net’ and to notice that although the salmon’s (Antonio’s) status appears to be of a lower rank, his true value is one that is much higher, but ironically this can not be accepted until death.
I am aware that my interpretation is different to everyone else's.
DK
The fable of the “salmon and the dogfish” is a fitting tale for the end of Act three because it serves to represent the Duchess’ and Antonio’s relationship. She chooses to represent herself as the “dogfish” whilst Antonio is portrayed as the “salmon”, due to his lower class roots. She says that it is irrelevant to dislike someone because of their background, and even those who have had a privileged upbringing may not always be decent. In this way she refers to her brothers as “men oft are valued high, when th’ are most wretched.” She also uses the fable to enhance her point that the worth of people are not judged separately, but it is only when they come together that their value comes to light; “our value can never be truly known till in the fisher’s basket we be shown.”
Oh that one up there was by Aimee :)
The fable of the 'salmon and the dogfish' serves to reflect the Duchess's change in character, both her physical and psychological disintegration. Ath the beginning of the play Webster presents the Duchess as being a woman of strength and boldness (?) demonstrated through the disobedience of her brothers, and also of a high status. However toward the end of Act 3 these character traits are reversed and the Duchess becomes the binary opposite of her former self. The Duchess becomes a weak, fragile woman, while simultaneously growing in humanity, thus gaining the respect of the audience, who empathise with the cruel treatment she's being issued with and the resulting detioration of her character.
Lauren
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